Sunday, February 01, 2009

Gaza Losses = Inciting Hateful Speech

Is the ugly and horrific truth about the War on Gaza too much for some? I believe so.. Some folks just want the truth buried.

I posted a comment on Mona Eltahawy's blog to an article she wrote entitled On Self-Hate and Fence Sitting.

My comment upset and incensed a person who accused me of inciting hateful speech. Mentioning the death toll and destruction in Gaza is hateful speech!!!

Here is the comment and person's responses (followed by mine):


GardensofSand said:
It’s hard to sit on the fence when all the dead bodies and destruction pile up to tower over the fence.

Over 1200 murdered in a little over 2 weeks. Out of those killed, 33% are children, over 20 % are women.

Before the War on Gaza, 75 % of Gazans needed someone to bring food to their table (because of the blockade, movement restructions, etc). The number is up to 100%. 70 % have no access to clean water. With 1.5 million people living in an area only slightly larger than Washington DC, 22000 buildings are destroyed. 56% have no access to medicine. 95 % of children tramautized.
Infrastructure destroyed, sewage systems destroyed so raw sewage is flowing among what remains of people’s homes. Hospitals and schools destroyed. White phosphorus used on civillians. UN buildings where civillians were sheltered bombed using imprecise weapons.
Everything shipping in Gaza must be granted permission by Israel. Banking system shut down for several and only resumed with Israel’s permission. No NGO access into Gaza. No foreign journalists allowed.


International humanitarian laws were violated. The war violated both the distinction principle and proportionalityprinciple.

Noting all the above, all the destruction and loss, the catastrophe of Gaza and suffering of Gazans, is sitting on the fence the conscientious, just stance? Have we reached such a low as self-proclaimed, self-hating Arabs that we cannot even condemn the merciless killing of civillians, the systematic destruction of a people?
January 25th, 2009, 2:02 am

Craig said:
Some pretty high-handed rhetoric there, GardensOfSand. Who do you think you are helping, with all that?
January 31st, 2009, 12:27 pm

GardensofSand said:
Words don’t help Craig. Without actions backing them up, words are empty and meaningless. As for who I thought I was helping with my comment, the answer is no one in particular, I was merely pointing out some facts, the outcome of the attack so to speak. I guess the truth is sometimes ugly and uncomfortable to read.
February 1st, 2009, 2:20 am

Craig said:
Over 1200 murdered in a little over 2 weeks. Out of those killed, 33% are children, over 20 % are women.
Is that truth? Is that fact?
February 1st, 2009, 8:42 am

Craig said:
And also…
Words don’t help Craig.
Words have power. Words sometimes do help. Words also sometimes do a great deal of harm. Which kind were yours?
Without actions backing them up, words are empty and meaningless.
And how would a logical person, reading your words, decide to back them up? Your words incited hate… what is the likely outcome, when people let themselves be incited by hateful speech? So, I ask again… who were you trying to help?
February 1st, 2009, 8:45 am

GardensofSand said:
Craig, I got the stats above from Bill Corcoran,President of ANERA (American Near East Refugee Aid), and Mitchell PlitnickDirector of US Office of B’Tselem (Israeli Human Rights Organization). Google the organizations or even war on Gaza to get verification of the facts.
Facts incite hate? I think it is your words that incite hate and negativity. Whether your are for or against the war on Gaza is one issue, but to not even acknowledge the outcome is what I find hateful.


If you with notice in my comments and your answers to them, you are the one who is negative and you are the one attacking. Frankly, I am somewhat surprised and a little bemused. Would you have prefered that the casualties and destruction remain unnoticed and unacknowledged? The facts are there, make of them what you will. As I said, the truth is ugly. It seems some would like it to remain buried.

Attacking someone’s speech and labeling it as hateful, and accusing the person of inciting hateful speech are ways of marginalizing the individual and discrediting what they say. It will not work on me. Why do you want to discredit what I have to say Craig? What in it makes you uncomfortable? Are the numbers too horrific? They can easily be verified.

As to backing the words with actions, there are many ways, the hardest of which is to reexamine your stance in light of the outcome. You can donate your time and effort for the relief efforts, or you can devote it to spread awareness about whatever position you hold. Or you can decide that it is not something that concerns you and move on. Whatever floats your boat.

As to to who I wanted to help, I repeat no one in particular. Maybe at best, posting the facts and outcomes of the war on Gaza would give someone food for thought and cause them to reexamine their own positions whatever they may be.

Peace to you, Craig.
February 1st, 2009, 2:10 pm

Craig said:
GoS,
Craig, I got the stats above from Bill Corcoran,President of ANERA (American Near East Refugee Aid), and Mitchell PlitnickDirector of US Office of B’Tselem (Israeli Human Rights Organization). Google the organizations or even war on Gaza to get verification of the facts.
Well, for one thing, you assume stats from those organizations are valid. I do not. For another thing, you clearly said “MURDERED” - not killed. Big difference. And lastly, you gave stats for “children” without noting that many Hamas fighters are technically Children… the average age range for Hamas fighters is 15 to 23, from what I’ve read.

You aren’t arguing facts, when you take stats and and make claims such as that, even if your stats are initially valid.

Facts incite hate? I think it is your words that incite hate and negativity.
Really? And if I were Jewish, and you told me that my country had deliberately murdered 1300 Palestinians, would that make me feel all loving and peaceful? :O

And how would it make Arabs feel, if they believed you that Israel deliberately MURDERED so many Palestinians? They wouldn’t want revenge, right? They’d immediately want to live in peace and harmony, correct?

Whether your are for or against the war on Gaza is one issue, but to not even acknowledge the outcome is what I find hateful.

I’m neither for nor against the war in Gaza. If I had my way there would be peace, and there would have been peace a long time ago. However, I am very much opposed to terrorism, and Hamas is a terrorist group with a long history of MURDERING innocent Israelis. Why do you not use the word “Murder” when it can be used correctly, in reference to hamas suicide bombing against Israeli women, children, elderly, etc who were doing nothing except going about their lives?

If you with notice in my comments and your answers to them, you are the one who is negative and you are the one attacking.
lol. A liar, complaining that somebody is being aggressive when they have the temerity to challenge their lies? How novel.

I won’t reply any further to you on this. And please don’t wish me “peace”. You are a peace advocate in the same way that I’m the Prime Minister of India.
February 1st, 2009, 5:53 pm

GardensofSand said:
Craig, whether you choose to reply or not is your own perogative just as it is my own in wishing you peace, you cleary need it.The Director of B’tselem is Jewish and has Israeli relatives. I have no reason to doubt his statistics. Many Jews do not support the war on Gaza. If you google the war on Gaza you will see similar statistics reported by other agencies, such as UN, Amnesty International,BBC and other news portals.


Just because the facts aren’t to one’s liking doesn’t mean they’re invalid. It seems you would prefer the reality of the death toll and destruction buried.

Here is another fact for you, the death toll reported concerns civillians, the children murdered were not part of Hamas, they were innocent bystanders, children trying to survive this war and live as normal a life as they can.

Murder is the unlawful killing of another human being with intent. When civillians are killed as a result of use of imprecise weapons, or raids, or airstrikes, or indirectly because of an intentional blockade, I view it as murder. You may disagree.

When the civillian death toll is as high as it is, when many organizations state that Israel failed to distinguish between civillians and noncivillians, I would hope that any Israeli would feel indignant and would question his or her government. I would hope that he or she would stress among his Israeli and Palestinian counterparts respect for each other, liberty, and economic viability as the only course for a lasting peace and a decent life in the region.

Seriously Craig, name calling is so immature and only makes you look bad. It really doesn’t phase me, but here’s a piece of advice, it makes you look bad, like someone who lost the argument and can’t keep his cool, a sore loser.

Peace to you Craig and to the Prime Minister of India.
February 1st, 2009, 8:20 pm

8 comments:

Mahmood Al-Yousif said...

You should get him to talk to Barbara Lubin. Or maybe because she is an anti-Zionist Jew he would marginalise her excellent work in Gaza too?

Never mind these trolls, they just like to hear their own voice.

Mahmood Al-Yousif said...

Here's some more information you might want to share with your "friend"!

SoulSearch said...

Hi GoS,believe me, there are many more Craigs in the world. Palestinian blood is just very cheap on an international level. Israeli blood however is very dear, as it is backed by the world's superpower, the US of A!
Craig is probably talking from an American point of view who do not see Palestinians as human beings.

Peace,
Soul

Terri's Space said...

OHMIGOD!!! I can't believe this guys level of ignorance...but then again...I can. It kinda goes along with my quote of the day: It belongs to human nature to hate those you have injured." ~ Tacitus

And, SoulSearch...quit making the Americans the bad guys and lumping us all into one group; as I'm sure you would not appreciate anyone doing to you, and whatever group you were fortunate or unfortunate enough to be born into. There are A LOT OF AMERICANS who are appalled at what is happening in Gaza!!! Do you have control of your government? Can you enact immediate change when your government lies to you (i.e. WMD's)? There have been several protests in the USofA against Isreal's actions in Gaza, and not just by American Muslims. I myself, who is American, and not Muslim, where the Palestinian (black/white) scarf in support of the Palestinian people and the defunct state of Palestine. Mind yourself...or you'll just be another Craig

Salmaan said...

Gardens of Sand ... here's a possible reason why the idiot was sparring with you:

http://www.muzzlewatch.com

check it out

Anonymous Farmer said...

Sands,

You shouldn't be surprised over Craig's ignorant (if not racist) comment. Due to the unbelievable brainwashing of the North American public through mainstream media, many Americans - as opposed to the rest of the world - are ignorant when it comes to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

You delete that mother right outta your blog; his voice dehumanizes himself as well as hurts all others.

Great job.

2013 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Christopher said...

In my eyes no matter what the situation is, is that people are dying one either side, and people are in pain and there is suffering. As a person that is what gets to me the most...people dying...it is a sad state of affairs when a solution cannot be found and people can live in peace...maybe I am just a silly dreamer, but I hope in my lifetime it will be.

Kudos to your writing!